chiliadicorum:

nyarnamaitar:

belladonna2931:

chiliadicorum:

nyarnamaitar:

I want to kill the Melkor is the only Vala capable of creativity fanon with my bare hands.

Let me know when. I’ll join you.

Yeah good luck with that. First, define creativity. If it is anything related to the music of ainur it’s NOT considered creativity. Melkor had the power to think outside of the box, the others were just doing what they were meant to be doing, being merely executives of a pre-ordained plan. Unlike them, Melkor rejoiced in standing out, although he put his potentials to waste by destructing rather than creating things of his own.

Why did Melkor “think outside of the box”? If you believe the Valar to be incapable of creativity, if you think they are merely doing what they are meant to be doing all along, then you could just as well argue that Melkor was also merely fulfilling his role as an agent of chaos, thus being just as “pre-ordained” as the rest of them.

I think it’s imperative to remember that Melkor didn’t deviate into being the “bad guy” because he wanted to “think outside the box”. He didn’t go off on his own to express his own creativity, but because (for one) he wanted to “hold absolute sway” over Eru’s Children and be their sole lord and master, all because he currently couldn’t be that way with his own Maiar who followed him (despite how subservient the Umaiar were, they still assented to Melkor’s rebellion of their own volition). He wanted dominion. But it’s the subject of “creativity” we’re talking about and attributing that only to Melkor makes absolutely no sense to me.

Melkor mocks. It’s one thing I love about him. It’s a noticeable pattern in the lore that, in order to bring his “influence” to Arda, he had to corrupt what was already created. Mockeries of things already existing. Thangorodrim a mockery of Oiolosse, Orcs a mockery of Elves, Angband to the Pelori, to list a few.

That’s not to say Melkor wasn’t creative, because he was. He was specifically said to have a part in all of the Valar’s abilities, which made him the greatest power under Eru with Manwe “a little less great”. And Manwe was originally tasked to follow Melkor in improving whatever Melkor made/devised/began. Only Melkor blew it by entering into the Void. He could and would have been Master of all that was done and there had been many Ainur willing to follow him if he called, but he blew it. And then the task of making/devising/beginning everything then became Manwe’s responsibility. Everything in Ea, in the universe? That was literally created by the Valar. And Tolkien specifically said that Manwe had the greatest part in that Song.

I suspect you’re saying that the Valar or the Music of the Ainur can’t be considered creative because it was Eru’s idea “originally”, right? Eru showed them what to make and they were just good little children, doing what dad said. But what Eru showed them in the beginning was the completed picture of what they were to create, not instructions on how to create it. The Valar had to figure that out on their own. (That’d be like my father showing me a picture of a flying car and saying, “beautiful isn’t it? Wouldn’t you like to be the CEO of that car? Now make it. Good luck!” and I’m just deer in the headlights) Remember how the Valar were dumbfounded when they entered Ea? They expected what they were shown to already be there. They didn’t know they had to frickin make it.

As you said, Melkor’s own “creativity” if you will came in the way of destruction, and I agree completely on wasted potential. But what was he destroying, corrupting? Things that were already made. Again, that’s not to say Melkor isn’t creative because he is. But to say anything related to the Music of the Ainur can’t be considered creativity? Then you have to classify Melkor as being uncreative as well. Because all his creations (aka corruptions) was derived from that very Music, or rather more so from the Valar’s interpretation of it. That’s the point the OP was making, that attributing the trait of creativity only to Melkor is false and, in my opinion, bs at its finest. I think that’d be like saying Peter Jackson wasn’t creative with LotR because the books had already been written first (and comparatively, PJ would have far less claim to creativity than the Valar in that case. What the Valar did is what PJ would’ve had to do if all he had to go off of was how LotR ended).

And arguably, Melkor’s creativity did not necessarily supersede the Valar’s. What about that Light Melkor both hated and craved, captured in Elf-made Jewels he for some reason couldn’t break open? How he couldn’t break free from Angainor, a measure of restraint that was in no way part of the original Song that Aule alone came up with? (and one of the seven metals that Angainor was made of, called tilkal, was invented by Aule and could be forged only by him and that was the specific element that Melkor couldn’t break free from. Pretty creative of him, imo) What about Aule, who created the Dwarves? That wasn’t part of the vision Eru showed them. He made them because he was impatient. Yavanna who created the Ents when she appealed to Manwe? Manwe, god of the heavens which was one of the two places Melkor was never able to conquer, despite how creative he is? And he tried. Even in Morgoth’s Ring, there’s some creation v. creation going on, Melkor’s Cloud of Unseeing v. Manwe’s Great Wind (the Wind ripped the Cloud apart, btw)

I understand the argument being made, but (and correct me if I’m wrong), it seems to be being made on the basis that Melkor went off on his own because his own creativity was being stifled, and that is what is false. It wasn’t him wanting to create what he wasn’t allowed to make. It was him wanting what he didn’t have.

It really was wasted potential. That’s what makes it a grievous thing, imo, instead of just problematic. He could’ve been creating right and left, whether with the Valar or apart from them, but he was warring against them for something that had nothing to do with creation. The Valar were creative, proven by everything made of their own ideas, ideas inspired by the big picture. And Melkor was too, being the greatest of the Ainur and having a part in all they could do. But this War of theirs was never instigated over the issue of creativity. If I were to ask Melkor if the Valar are creative or not, I’m sure he would answer something like “Yeah they are but what by the Void does that have to do with anything?”